Jeremy Carlson, CEO & Founder of Crispy Cones

Guest: Jeremy Carlson, CEO & Founder, Crispy Cones

Host: Chris Hatch

Listen on Spotify

Summary

Chris Hatch talks with Jeremy Carlson, founder and CEO of Crispy Cones, the Idaho-based chimney cake and soft serve brand he dreamed up while serving a mission in Prague. Jeremy tells the story from recipe testing in his aunt's kitchen at night while in college, to a canopy tent on the side of the road in Rexburg, to a trailer and two brick-and-mortar stores, then a Shark Tank deal with Barbara Corcoran. He shares what it took to bootstrap a franchise system without outside money, the kind of franchisees he looks for, why inline spaces work better for Crispy Cones than end caps and drive-thrus, and how a young team uses social media to move fast.

Key Takeaways

• Bootstrapping is brutal. Crispy Cones "fed the beast" for five years with no paychecks, and becoming a franchise nearly bankrupted the company.

• Crispy Cones looks for high-energy, fun franchisees who want to be their own boss. It has turned people down simply for being a poor fit for the guest experience.

• Site priorities: a broker who knows the brand and the industry, visibility and signage ("if they can't see you, they don't know you"), plus strong foot and vehicle traffic among other restaurants.

• While everyone races for end caps and drive-thrus, Crispy Cones does equal revenue in cheaper inline spaces of about 1,200 to 1,400 square feet.

• Total investment has stayed under $400,000 per store. About half of franchisees pay cash and half use SBA loans.

• Finding locations is the biggest challenge for franchisees right now. There still isn't enough inventory, and the Shark Tank credibility helps with landlords.

• As a franchisor, you're a service center. Your job is to support franchisees and increase the odds of their success every day.

Transcript

Editor's note: The opening teaser and Forza Management ad were removed.

[01:45] Chris Hatch: Welcome back to the Dirt Dog Pod. We're excited today about our guest. We have Jeremy Carlson, CEO and founder of Crispy Cones. Thanks for joining us, Jeremy.

[02:37] Jeremy Carlson: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to get to talking with you guys.

[02:42] Chris Hatch: You know, not all of our guests deliver sweet and delicious treats to the world. So you're doing a higher power's work or something here.

[02:52] Jeremy Carlson: Well, I'm definitely trying. I enjoy it. I mean, it's better than selling tires or tools. It's better to sell ice cream and good products. So I love it.

[03:03] Chris Hatch: Tell us about how you found your passion for what you're doing.

[03:08] Jeremy Carlson: I actually found my passion in a dream. And I mentioned this on Shark Tank too, but I was living in the Czech Republic as a missionary for my church. And I actually had a dream in the middle of the night, the last month I was living there of me making this famous product. That's very famous in European countries. They make this dough cone that they grill rotisserie style over coal. And then it's like a brioche or pastry and then they lather the inside with a spread. Like Nutella, cookie butter, and then you can fill it with whipped cream or anything, or you can just have it like that.

Well, I was like, this is phenomenal. I loved the product. It was so unique. It wasn't just your regular ice cream cone per se, but I was like, I think I can revolutionize this a little bit in the US and share the history and the love of European culture in the US as well. And so the US is one big mixing pot and we have all different foods here in the U.S.. And so I said, let's just try it and see how it goes. And I brought it back in and I've changed the product a little bit and revolutionized it a little bit, but my passion is for Europe. Love Europe. Spent half my life there and I love building a strong business. So.

[04:28] Chris Hatch: That's amazing. Yeah, from a dream to reality, right?

[04:31] Jeremy Carlson: Yes, exactly. No, no, seriously. I'm not a baker or a chef or a cook but I had this like vision of me basically just making this product in the US. And I was like, this is phenomenal. I got to try it out. Here I am.

[04:48] Chris Hatch: So, okay, so that was during your time in Czech, right? And you said Prague specifically or just the Czech Republic? Prague? Fun. And then you said you spent half your life in Europe. So that's some additional time because that's a two-year stint, right, that you lived there?

[05:05] Jeremy Carlson: Yes. Yeah, I was raised as a military brat, and we moved around every two to three years. Nine years of my life was spent in Europe. That was Germany and Czech Republic. So I really grew to love the European culture and Europeans. Like they're just, they have a soft spot in my heart. So yeah. Half my life in Europe and I think that's what had a lot of influence on the brand.

[05:42] Chris Hatch: Yeah, that's interesting. I did a mission for our church as well, in New Jersey. And I don't know what it is. It's so interesting. Those concepts that you like fall in love with during that time period and how much affinity you have for them. Right. How you're describing these waffle cones is how I feel about Rita's water ice. And I would tell you on a hot New Jersey day, Rita's water ice got you through that day for sure.

[06:12] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, yeah, no, I believe it. Yeah, there's something special when you're out there serving every single day and it's hot and miserable. You fall in love with just about any concept out that way and then you want to share with your friends and family. But in this case, I'm now seven years going on this and keep going, keep growing it. And I'm having more fun with it as the company grows, so.

[06:38] Chris Hatch: Okay, walk us through it. So you have the dream, you come back to the US, get into school or whatever, and then start the concept? How did it work for you?

[06:51] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, so I was so determined to be my own boss. I truly believe that is a true measure of freedom, spiritually and emotionally especially, but I was so determined to be my own boss and to run my own business. And nothing was going to stop me. Financials was not going to stop me. Not having enough money was not going to stop me. So I opened up, I was going to BYU-Idaho at the time. Before I had transferred to Utah State. So I was at BYU-Idaho first, then I went to the Huntsman School at Utah State. And I would go to school in the days, and then at nights, I would go to my aunt's house in her kitchen, and I would just work on this recipe over and over again.

And it really was miserable. And I was going to school all day, in school, in class, trying to date, trying to have a social life. But then at night I was like, hightailing my way back to my aunt's kitchen to develop this recipe and this concept. And by the end it'd be like two to three AM and the kitchen would be like full of flour just like everywhere. Those were the early days until about six months in of doing that and destroying my aunt's kitchen. We nailed the recipe, we got the recipe down and she was actually the first one that had the full, plain cone.

And then from there, it's history. We opened up on the side of the road in a canopy tent. Again, I had no money, but my passion was more powerful than my money.

[08:31] Chris Hatch: Is this still in Rexburg?

[08:33] Jeremy Carlson: In Rexburg, Idaho, yep. And opened up on the side of the road in a canopy tent and sold the product just fresh, no ice cream, just a hot fruit cone with fruit inside of it and whipped cream. And then that was in 2018. And then we went from a tent to a trailer. We designed and built this trailer in China. Again, no money. So I moved all the profits from this tent to the trailer. And then in the trailer, we introduced gourmet soft serve ice cream. This is the second stage of being a founder, of developing and innovating, we nailed the recipe of the cone, then we had to figure out the ice cream.

This is when we entered the ice cream industry, which is very competitive, very hard, and everyone has their preferences and their opinions. Then we went from a tent to a trailer, then trailer to, I transferred to Utah State, got married to my wife, who was my social media marketer. And then we opened up our first brick and mortar in Logan and that store is still there. And then we sold the trailer, opened up a store in Rexburg. We had two corporate stores and then we just started a franchise, went on Shark Tank and it just kept getting crazier, still gets crazier.

[09:53] Chris Hatch: So when you got to Shark Tank, are you still in school at that moment or are you just fresh out of school?

[09:58] Jeremy Carlson: So I was taking a semester off because of Shark Tank. So I actually got a deferred approval from Utah State to go on Shark Tank and defer it. But I actually haven't gone back yet. They keep sending me these emails saying, hey, do you want to come finish your 18 credits? And I need to, because it's so small. The company just kept growing and blowing up. My attention was more focused on that than school.

[10:28] Chris Hatch: Okay, so you're still pretty young here, you're young 20s. Okay, and then where does Shark Tank get recorded?

[10:32] Jeremy Carlson: LA. So basically, we had two stores at the time, Chris, and we were like, we were watching the show and we're like, what the hell? Like we have bigger sales than they do. Like, why can't we go on? Like what's different from us? And, we just applied and we heard back two months later after we applied, they called us and they were like, Hey, this is the casting crew. And I was like, Holy sh*t. I was like freaking out. And I was trying to get my wife up and we're like, we're interested in working with you, but we have a lot of applications. So no, don't get your hopes up.

And anyway, from that point, six months, they moved us up working with producers, executive producers. And then we flew to LA and it's filmed at Sony Studios. That was in 2020, 2021.

[11:37] Chris Hatch: Okay, so you're rolling the profits forward, you get the two stores up and running, and then you apply to Shark Tank. What was it that you were after? What were you trying to get out of going on Shark Tank and interesting one of the sharks in your concept?

[11:53] Jeremy Carlson: So we saw the demand for franchising. We never intended to franchise. We always just wanted to grow organically into what we wanted. But we did see the demand to franchise. A lot of people were interested and the wait list was high. So we had already become a franchise. And if you don't know, to become a franchise, it's very expensive, like the legal fees. And you know, you work with a lot of successful franchises. To get to that point, it almost bankrupted us because we were just some young college kids with two stores. And then we have all these legal attorneys and building our FDD and all that stuff.

So it almost bankrupted us, but mainly because we never raised money and we did everything by cash, what we had, but whatever was in the bank, that's what we used to feed our business. And we were looking, one, for a partner and a specific partner that could help us scale with franchising. And everyone goes on Shark Tank because they want the publicity. Like, what the hell, you know? Like, eight million people watch the show. So we wanted the publicity and the brand awareness, but we also wanted to partner with a good quality shark. And for us, that was Barbara Corcoran, always from the start. We never told producers we wanted her.

We just said she has the expertise in franchising. So make sure that she's on the panel when we pitch. And they said, we'll try to make sure that happens.

[13:15] Chris Hatch: So you knew that going in you're like, Barbara is a better fit for us and everybody else. That's who we really want.

[13:21] Jeremy Carlson: We did not want anyone else other than her or Mark Cuban. We liked Mark and people don't know this. They don't show this in the edit. In the edit they did, but Mark was actually wanting to go in as well, but backed out last minute. So they don't show that on the episode. They just show Barbara.

[13:39] Chris Hatch: Let's back up for just a minute. One of the things I think it's so interesting about scaling a business and I have the pleasure of talking to a lot of people like yourself, right, that are true founders that have that grit and the tenacity that it takes to kind of get through that time period. I think that one of the concepts that people, a lot of people want to be an entrepreneur, but they don't understand how hard it is when you're reinvesting everything you've got into the concept that you're building. And it's not just the financial, it's the emotional piece too. You know, and it's tough.

[14:15] Jeremy Carlson: It's financial, emotional, physical. It is one of the most gruesome things anyone can ever do is be an entrepreneur and an original founder. It's one thing to buy a business and scale it. That is hard. It is incredibly difficult being the founder of a brand that's never existed before and sometimes a product that's never existed in that area, or market, before. You're figuring every little detail out and then you're the bank. No bank will give you money. No bank gave Kate and me money. We were high risk. Young 20-year-olds, barely a credit score. Like they're not going to give us anything. So we were forced to figure it out and we did.

And now banks want to lend us money and they want to open up these lines of credit for us. But it took a long time to basically get to the point of turning our profits into investments and like we didn't get a paycheck for five years. Yeah, we just built and fed the beast for five years and now the beast feeds us. That's how I tell it to everybody. And when early business owners dive into their business and they just want the rewards so fast, they're going to be disappointed 100% of the time. 100% of the time. Whenever I hear someone say, want to be an entrepreneur, or I wish I was in your position, or I wish I was doing this or that, sometimes I say, no, you don't, because you have no idea how hard it was on our marriage, on us personally, for five years to get to this point, you know?

[15:53] Chris Hatch: Yeah, you're missing the blood, sweat and tears and the decade I shaved off my life to get to here. I bet you know that road between Logan and Rexburg like the back of your hand. Plenty of midnight runs for material or...

[16:10] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, plenty of midnight runs, plenty of driving through Preston and Swan Lake and crying on the way, trying to figure out what my next move is or where we're going to spend our next dollar, if we're going to make payroll or in the early times of building the brand. Yeah.

[16:27] Chris Hatch: Okay. So you get to LA, okay, you go through the producer calls, you get geared up for the show, and then you hop on a plane, you head down there. At what point in time did, like, did you have a panic attack as you're getting ready to walk out on that stage? I just feel like somewhere in there, I'm going to freak out. I mean, that's got to be a little intimidating talking to the sharks.

[16:50] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, it was the scariest moment of my entire life. In fact, when we were there, we pitched at around 6 p.m. But they picked us up to get to Sony Studios at 7 a.m. So we were there for a long time just hearing, and we would actually be watching the other pitches on the TV screens like, my gosh, like they're gruesome or they're not in a good mood right now, or wondering if we're going to catch them in a mood. Anyway, so then they mic us up, we get behind the doors. We're behind the doors and they're like, Kate, any moment now we're going to open up the doors.

You're going to walk down and you're going to give your pitch. And I'm like leaning over to Kate and I'm like, babe, I think I forgot my pitch, which, you practice that for six months. You know, like that's like, should be muscle memory. And she just instantly just starts to pray and she's like praying, like, please help him like figure this out and not mess up. Not embarrass us on national television. Anyway, right when she said, amen, Chris, I kid you not. Doors open, we walk down, the camera crew's rolling and it's all one take. It's not like, hey, cut that, re-say this, redo this.

It's one take and I actually have a higher respect for this show because we know reality TV is always kind of edited and our episode was edited to their favor and to what they wanted. But I will say it was one take. They did not tell us what to say. They did not tell the sharks what to say. You either get a deal or you don't, walk out. Like they're not going to cut it and stop it. So it was the scariest moment of my life, but in my brain, I wanted Barbara. And so we put emphasis on talking with her and answering her questions and it worked out.

I mean, it's crazy to talk to you about it now because it's been over two years since, almost three years since we pitched. And now we've been partnered with Barbara Corcoran for multiple years and she's now grown with the business. I mean, she saw Kate when she was barely pregnant and now we have a two year old and so things can change super fast and we always manifest to ourselves like we will partner with Barbara and we will spend time with her and her $20 million penthouse in New York City and we will walk the streets of New York. All those things have happened. We've gone to her place in New York City multiple times and eaten dinner there.

It was my birthday there one time. She sang happy birthday to me, like just surreal things that have happened to us because we've worked hard and manifested our future. So.

[19:24] Chris Hatch: Okay, so Barbara comes in and it gives you, I imagine, a pretty good mental bump, right? A mental push, wind in the sail, if you will. And that basically allows you to get the capital in place so you can breathe a little bit and then, what, start to focus on finding quality franchisees and how to grow franchise operation?

[19:48] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah. So number one, we actually didn't need funding. We were pretty good. Now, becoming a franchise almost bankrupted us, but we had kind of rebounded a little bit. But yeah, it was nice to get, six figures from her and we had never raised money. Chris, even to this day, we've grown the brand to 99 franchises. I don't know how to go out and raise money. Like I just have learned to just like, put my head down in the sand and work hard and make the dollar stretch and figure it out. But it was, she bought into the brand. So she's an equity owner. And at that point it was just grow and figure out how to build a strong foundation to franchise.

We wanted to build something that you could replicate and do it multiple times and scale it and operations would work. And so she just told us to move as quick and as ethically as we can. And we've done that. I mean, we're now, our company turns seven next week. No, this week, actually. And so seven years of growing the brand and now we're franchising. And so, yeah, we just started franchising to scale coast to coast and we have about 44 partners and 99 franchises under contract.

[21:16] Chris Hatch: That's wild. What is the typical kind of franchisee that you're looking for?

[21:24] Jeremy Carlson: You know, we're looking for high energy, fun people. Sounds bizarre, but if you were to ask Barbara Corcoran right now, who do you look for in a founder or who do you invest in? She's like, I don't care about the money. I don't really care about the business. I care about the people and how fun are they? How do they see life? Do they have a good positive perspective about life? And, that's what we do in franchising. Like I've had so many people fly out to headquarters wanting to franchise. And we've said, we don't think this is the right fit. We've denied because of simply them just being boring.

It sounds crazy, Chris, but this is an industry where you walk into a store and it's got to be high energy. Like you're wanting good guest service and you're wanting it to be a good experience. And you want the person to greet you with a smile. Like we want that in our franchisees because we know that'll trickle down. So we're looking for people who are, one, wanting to make a future for themselves and be their own boss; two, high energy, have a positive perspective and outlook on the world and are fun, can value fun in business. I mean, Chris, you and I have probably been around so many different people who are taking themselves too seriously, you know?

And we forget that there's an aspect in business that's important and it's fun. You got to have fun. So it sounds crazy, but that's literally what we look for.

[22:52] Chris Hatch: Well, I think it also goes a little bit in tandem with what you're serving, right? You're serving dessert. It's fun. It's an extra thing. You know, it's not necessarily something that you need all the time. You're going to splurge for it. You got to make it that fun environment. It's got some hospitality nature to it.

[23:08] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, yeah it does. It's got to be fun. I mean if we were selling tires and tools, I think we'd be looking for a different type of franchisee at that point. But you're right.

[23:18] Chris Hatch: So, okay, so and how many stores do we have open today?

[23:22] Jeremy Carlson: We just opened up our 14th. By the end of summer, we'll have around 35.

[23:29] Chris Hatch: Wow. What do you look for when you're out in the field, your franchisees have brokers or maybe they're doing it on their own, but they're finding sites and they're like, this is it. This is the site I need to go to and wherever the town is. What do you do when you look at that site? How do you quantify that and decide, hey, this is a great location for us?

[23:52] Jeremy Carlson: You know, visibility is huge and we work with Dan Engel. He's awesome. And he helps us and he connects our franchisees with recommended brokers and individuals who know what they're talking about and know the industry. So number one, let me back up. We're looking for someone to represent the brand that knows the industry. And knows where those who are successful in the industry are going. And then number two is finding a site with lots of traffic and that's foot traffic and vehicle traffic, but good visibility as well. If they can't see you, they don't know you. And I tell that to my franchise partners all the time.

Signage is huge. If they don't see your sign, they're not going to know where you are. And we have some franchisees that are hidden And it affects their sales. We have some that are open wide open and it's like triple the sales. So I think number one, finding a good quality broker and someone who understands the brand. Dan Engel has been with us for quite a time, quite a while and understands what we are as a brand, what we stand for, our vision, where we're going, the kind of clientele we need. And then we go for visibility and traffic and foot traffic and vehicle traffic and no one wants to eat somewhere where there's not another group of places to eat.

There's a reason why Home Depot and Lowe's always stick together, you know? Wherever there's a Lowe's, there's a Home Depot around the corner. The same thing with our industry. We want to be where people are eating. We want to be where people are trading and wanting to eat and get dessert. And if we're in that little bubble there, we've statistically found success.

[25:51] Chris Hatch: One of the things I love about Dan, as you mentioned him as your broker, it doesn't matter if Dan was locating a shaved ice snow shack or if Dan was helping Walmart to locate the next door. Dan is a person that literally lives his assignments with passion. He is going to put just as much into that shave ice as he is a Walmart.

[26:12] Jeremy Carlson: He does. No, and it's true. And he will treat each client the same, whether they're worth a billion dollars or whether they're worth $2. And he treats them with the same respect. And that's someone that you need in your corner. So I hope that answered your question. Did that answer your question?

[26:31] Chris Hatch: No, that does. It helps start to paint the picture for what's a great location. You know, and for you're looking for that co-tenancy of the good restaurants, people already eating there, and it's let's go grab dessert over here. Yeah.

[26:46] Jeremy Carlson: You know, and the other thing, Chris, is there's such a demand for end caps and drive-throughs right now that it actually provides a path for us because we don't want any of that. We don't care for any of that. We can do the same equal revenues in an inline space, a middle suite, and they're cheaper. What we have found is landlords, it's harder to rent those out than it is a drive-through space. You know, obviously, but... It is cheaper for us as a franchisor and a franchisee to be in the inline space and we can still do equal revenues as if we were on the end cap. So as everyone's racing for a drive-through and to be a drive-through, we're racing the other way and we've actually found success that way.

[27:38] Chris Hatch: So you mentioned a minute ago, your wife handles the marketing efforts for your company. What is she doing? How do you stand out in the crowd? Right. I mean, there's a lot of dessert options out there. We got cookie shops, we got bundt cake shops, plenty of ice cream options, yogurt options. What is it that gives you your niche? How do you distinguish yourself from your peers?

[28:03] Jeremy Carlson: Great question. I wish she was on with me. She's in the other room with the girls right now. But I think number one, I love this brand and I love this product Chris because it's not a cookie shop and it's not a soda shop. Now, mind you, I love to go to Crumbl. I'm a big fan of Crumbl. I'm a big fan of Swig. I love Swig. And but I will never join in on that. Because there are so many of the drink shops and the cookie shops that in my opinion, it's a bit saturated. For us though, we're in a market where dessert can be looked at as saturated.

Like you said, Froyo and all these other dessert concepts. What sets us apart, though, is, one,, the product itself. It is hard to duplicate and replicate. Honestly, I was just having a meeting as a brand today. We're the biggest chimney cake and chimney cake is what they call these in English terms. We're the biggest chimney cake company in the Americas. We just surpassed our biggest direct competitor, which is in Canada, in social followers and location count. And so our direct competitors aren't very common as of yet right now in the U.S. So I think organically we stand out. Just because it's such a different and unique product.

And then number two is social media. I mean, if you came to headquarters tomorrow, you'd walk in here and you'd be like, man, this place is run by a bunch of college kids. It's because it is. Like everyone here is under the age of 30. And we are all like extremely passionate, high energy, extremely hardworking individuals. We're not tired yet. And we really, really push social media. So we catch on to trends fast. Like if we have an idea out on Monday, we're having that out on the streets on Tuesday. It's out on socials on Tuesday, the campaign's running on Tuesday. And so we can maneuver quick.

That's one thing that Barbara Corcoran has taught us, Chris, is the bigger the company gets, it's kind of like a cruise ship. It takes hours for it to dock. But if you can remain small and creative and effective and efficient. It's like a little fishing boat takes 10 minutes to dock. They're going in circles around the cruise ship. And so we want to grow and scale the size of the cruise ship, but we want to be able to maneuver and push our campaigns, push our ideas out on the street like a fishing boat. That's kind of the mentality here is we are, we push ideas, push campaigns extremely fast.

And we have naturally a sense of creativity with social media just because of our age. I mean, we're like the first iPad babies. We're like the TikTok generation.

[31:02] Chris Hatch: I was going to say, so in that vein, do you think you get more customer capture from Instagram, TikTok, X, all the above?

[31:13] Jeremy Carlson: I would say TikTok and Instagram, yeah.

[31:16] Chris Hatch: Yeah. And to your point, right? Those cycles that go through TikTok, especially are like so quick, lightning fast, right? It's in and it's out.

[31:26] Jeremy Carlson: And it's out. And if it's out and you get on it's too late and you look bad.

[31:32] Chris Hatch: Two days after the Saratoga water ad went out,, I chose to come into the office. I suggested to Porter, who's helping us produce this show here today. Hey Porter, I'm going to dunk my face in a bowl full of Dutch Bros cold brew. And I'll tell you, most of the people in my office thought we were pretty crazy and it was wild because I don't have a huge TikTok following, but I pushed it out there. And lo and behold, it caused somebody that I don't normally communicate with to call me and we started working on an assignment for them in commercial real estate.

[32:04] Jeremy Carlson: That is wild. Yeah, that is cool. That's cool. You never know who's watching.

[32:10] Chris Hatch: You never know. And a side note is I've got a wonderful coffee glow to my face since then. Maybe we were onto something, you know?

[32:20] Jeremy Carlson: Maybe you are. Who knows? How many views did it get, Chris?

[32:23] Chris Hatch: Like a thousand. But that's the thing. It was only like a thousand views and it still hit with somebody. They called me and they said, I have no idea that you develop commercial real estate. Can you help us with this? Sure. You bet. No problem. Happy to. So you've got 14 open. You got 35 open by the end of the summer. Where's the brand headed from here? Obviously you got a tremendous amount of growth going. You've got a great product that's dialed in. Where do you go from here?

[32:54] Jeremy Carlson: We're careful to not grow too fast or to over saturate. Not saying it won't happen, because it could. But we're looking at capping at 500 domestically and then reevaluating what markets could we fill in the blanks for. But we are already looking at an international space. In fact, this is the first podcast I've even said that publicly. We are probably going to close on our first international deal this year. So that's huge for us to go international and to expand the brand to different cultures. So I think we're excited for that.

[33:40] Chris Hatch: You know, it kind of blows me away with how many people we've had on the pod that have been talking about taking a concept that's got, in a lot of instances, less than a couple hundred stores and going right into Dubai or going right into some place that you hear about and you're like, boy, that seems like a crazy venture. But it's interesting it seems like there's really good customer depth out there on the international market that are interested in these kinds of concepts.

[34:08] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, and the world economics is changing and operations are changing. It's easier to get an item from point A to point B. We don't have to wait as long anymore. Since a decade ago, transit has gotten faster and quicker. I mean, if so long as government officials kind of comply with that. But as time goes on and the use of AI and the use of data analytics, operations also increase efficiency. So we'll see.

[34:34] Chris Hatch: HQ's in Idaho, right?

[34:38] Jeremy Carlson: HQ is in Idaho, Southeast Idaho, yeah.

[34:41] Chris Hatch: Wonderful. Pocatello, Idaho Falls? Where are you guys out of?

[34:43] Jeremy Carlson: We're in Thornton. I don't think there's a population count here. The headquarters is literally in a building in the middle of an alfalfa field. And we have about 20 plus employees, or we will here in the next month, full time. We're becoming one of Rexburg's biggest companies. So I guess you could say we're in Rexburg.

[35:07] Chris Hatch: There's a lot of challenges when it comes to growth today. And I think one of those is just figuring out how to pay for the growth. So if I signed on as a new franchisee for you, what does that look like for me? What's the cost out of pocket to get the next Crispy Cone open?

[35:23] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, so we haven't had a store cross the $400,000 mark for total investment. That's build out signage, tenant improvements, equipment, franchise fees and training. So we haven't had one reach past that yet. And we hope that not many do. Now we're entering markets where it is a different market, so it's more expensive to build, et cetera.

[35:49] Chris Hatch: And do you find most of your franchisees just pay out of pocket for those costs? Are they usually borrowing for those with their bank or?

[35:56] Jeremy Carlson: I would say we have about half and half have just put in their cash and they're getting a quicker return. Obviously they're not having to pay debt and interest. But half are going through the SBA. We're compliant with the SBA. We're in good standings with the SBA. We have not had a single franchisee fail with the SBA.

[36:17] Chris Hatch: And how are you finding, you've mentioned here, you've got just under 100 stores under agreement. These are new stores that are franchisees committed to go finding that spot. You know, it still seems like it's a pretty difficult process for most of the tenants that I speak with as far as getting a store open, because the franchisees are trying to solve their math, the developers are trying to solve theirs. And it's just everybody's a little stressed on the equation. Are you finding that to be the case, or are you finding real estate readily available for you?

[36:49] Jeremy Carlson: It depends on the market. So I mean, we just entered in Arkansas and he found a location in a month and he will go from signing to grand opening in under six months. And that's a record for us and our brand. It usually takes seven plus. But I mean, the Texas market is difficult and aggressive and for our brand specifically and getting into 1,200- to 1,400-square-foot spaces. I guess it just depends on where they're at and what the state is. I would be lying to you if I said it wasn't a challenge, because it definitely is a challenge. It's probably the biggest challenge for a franchisee right now, is location finding.

There's still not enough inventory, Chris. Developers are still building. You're still building. And we're chasing the developers saying, hey, we want to rent your suite. We're not the only ones chasing, there's 10 other people chasing. So the Shark Tank brand and the Shark Tank credibility and the Barbara Corcoran credibility has definitely helped. And it also eases some concern with potential landlords, especially with the newer brand, but it is challenging. Yeah, it's of course challenging.

[38:07] Chris Hatch: You know, you have a draw though, especially for the I'm sure plenty of people listening to this are in charge of larger shopping centers, not the kind of tiny stuff I build, but much larger centers, power centers, lifestyle centers, malls. It seems like you'd be a really good draw for an opportunity like that and get cross traffic with the other shopping and the apparel retailers and whatnot.

[38:32] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, but sometimes those spaces are really old, you know? And they're dated and the community in that area looks at the spaces dated. And that can sometimes hurt our brand.

[38:46] Chris Hatch: Well, it's a fun concept and it's fun because it's something you're truly passionate about. Do you think that you have just as much passion today as you did when you started and had the dream?

[38:57] Jeremy Carlson: More. I have more passion. It's a different type of passion. I have more passion and excitement for where we're headed. I mean, Chris, if you had interviewed me five, six years ago, I'd have been a half-anorexic, single, depressed and exhausted entrepreneur with passion. But now, there's a sense of confidence because we've proven the model. We see franchisees post their financials and I don't know how much I'm supposed to say to this, but last month we had all our franchisee, we require our franchisees to post their financials to us every month. And all of our franchise stores except one were very profitable. And that's exciting. And to prove the model, to re-prove the model in the different markets and to refine the model.

I mean, that's one thing franchisors are always doing. They're saying you're investing in a model. And the model is always changing; it's always being refined. And so I think if anything, I have more passion and excitement for the future now than I did five, six years ago.

[40:07] Chris Hatch: What was it like transitioning from running your two stores to becoming the franchisor? Because really at that point, you're more in the support of franchisees business than you are in the customer business.

[40:20] Jeremy Carlson: Yeah, it's like starting a whole new business up. You are a customer service business at that point. You're a telemarketer. You take phone calls and you support and you provide feedback and advice. It's like growing two separate babies at once really. It's very difficult, because you're a service center. If a franchisor doesn't understand that, they don't understand franchising. You are a service center. Where they're calling you for service and help and assistance, they're looking at you. And if sales go down, they're looking at you, your service center. And it took a little bit to learn that and to learn that as a franchisor, you're there to really hold hands and to support and to take calls and to take emails and to increase the likelihood of success every day.

[41:16] Chris Hatch: Well, I love it. So thank you for joining us on the Dirt Dog Pod today. We can tell you're a guy full of passion and energy. And for anybody that's listening out there that hasn't been to a Crispy Cone, what are we supposed to order when we come in for the first time? What do you recommend?

[41:30] Jeremy Carlson: I love to get the hot fruit cone mainly because it was the original OG cone. It's right off the grill, fresh cookie butter on the inside, fresh fruits like strawberries and whipped cream, and then get a little cup of ice cream on the side. Love it.

[41:44] Chris Hatch: Well, thanks for joining us. We appreciate you and everybody get out and check out Crispy Cones.